Sibling conflict | How to get your brothers and sisters to help with ageing parents: Jo Lamble | Club Sandwich
If you’re the sibling holding the whole system in your head and everyone else is “right behind you”… this episode is your permission slip and your playbook.
Sarah Macdonald and clinical psychologist Jo Lamble unpack sibling dynamics when you’re caring for ageing parents, including why one person becomes the default carer (and why it stays that way).
Ageing parents? You’ve got them. We’ve got you.
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🔧 This Week’s Hack:
Stop the vague “I need help” plea. Use the specific ask script:
“I’m feeling overwhelmed and alone. Can you do [one clear task] on [day/time]?”
Then follow up with: “What can you realistically take on?”
💌 Listener Letter:
“The seating chart that broke me” - a listener plans a dementia-friendly family lunch, a sibling rearranges everything, Dad gets confused, and then she gets blamed. How do you manage family gatherings when some people live the daily reality and others only drop in?
Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader - CEO of Vera and expert on Australia’s ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble - Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr. Ginni Mansberg - GP and women’s health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr. Stephanie Ward - Geriatrician helping you understand when “old” becomes a crisis.
Kerry Silbury (Gogglebox) - bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.
Topics covered in this episode:
Sibling conflict, finding an ally, delegation that actually works, the “capable one” trap, the critic sibling, the busy sibling, emotional overwhelm, dementia and family gatherings, unpaid labour, money conflict, carer burnout, self-care that isn’t a vanilla candle.
Credits
Club Sandwich is brought to you by Vera, helping families caring for ageing parents navigate this stage of life so you don’t have to do it alone.
Sarah Macdonald: Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader: Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Rachel Fountain: Executive Producer
Audio + video edits by Fountain Media Group
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our awesome theme music Club Sandwich - hear more from Sean at seanwayland.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript
Club Sandwich is recorded on Gadigal land, home of the EORA nation. We pay our respects to elders past and present. Always was, always will be.
Hello clubbers. Welcome to Club Sandwich. This is the place you can come if your life is just stacked with responsibility and care and your dance card is so full you don't really go dancing anymore. There's no door, bitch. Just come on in. You are looking absolutely fine today. My name is Sarah McDonald, I care for two 90 year olds. I've got some 20 year olds at home. I've got a very decrepit and old dog in the mix as well. And with me in the club today is Jo Lambe, who is a clinical psychologist and writer. And we used to go to university together in a very small green Mini that still exists.
Can you believe that? Still I see driving around occasionally you've seen the actual car with the same number plates.
How many Ks would that have done? I don't know.
But 40 years, that's a lot. But you know, maybe in, you know, in Sydney, maybe not many, maybe it's just parked and that's why I see it.
Yeah, looking good. It was so cute. If we ate too much food, it hardly went up the hill. But it's still going strong, just like we are today. I want to touch on the topic that is siblings because sometimes I feel it's not the kind of doing stuff for my mum and the getting her prosecco, getting her chocolates, which are her two major foodstuffs, key to a long life. But it's the sort of sheer grinding responsibility of the emotional load of everything that I've gotta be across. And I think the siblings thing is a really interesting thing to talk about. Now. Keri Silbury, who was from Gogglebox and used to care for Emmy, her mum who was on Gogglebox with her, she was like the nation's grandma. She said a really interesting thing last year on social media and I just want to play this to you cause it's a great place to start.
Okay, I'm going to be blunt. You can't do this on your own. It's really a lonely thankless task. You will lose the plot if you try to. Denial in families often leaves one person carrying it all and you will cop all the shit. So you need an ally, at least one ally in the family. Work out who you can trust, who will back you all the way through to the end. Because it's really important for your own survival and your sanity.
So that's Keri Selbre. So she was on Gogglebox with her mum, Emmy and her daughter and Emmy lived with her and then she went into care and she died last year. Lovely Emmy, she was like TV's grandma. And Kerry is just so spot on here. Like you need to find an ally because you cannot do it all alone.
No. And we've got to remember that sometimes there's really large families, you know, and a large, I mean four plus adult children. And it can feel like, hold on, why isn't everyone stepping up? But we also have to remember sometimes only one other sibling, you know, so that makes it even more pronounced when you're thinking, okay, I've only got one so called ally in the family and they're not stepping up. So we often need to step outside that sibling range to find that ally. It might be, it could be a friend, it could be a friend, it could be a cousin, it could be, you know, an aunt, an uncle, you know, it's amazing how many people are willing to be your ally. You just need to look for them. And again, it comes back to if you, if you just expect your siblings, whether that's one or eight, to act the way you do, you're gonna be disappointed. So you've gotta find who is your ally and just, you know, expand the search a little bit.
I mean, I guess in the old days though, it used to be there used to be that one role in the family, like the kind of older spinster or the travelling companion that there used to be. And it does often end up being the oldest daughter a lot of the time, which is a terrible stereotype.
Yeah, yeah. And it still can often be a female who taking on this role. But why does it normally end up with one person? The major reason is geography. It normally is the person who lives closest to the elderly parent because let's face it, it is easier to pop in with that prosecco or chocolate. So that's normally the way they go.
Through it, I tell you.
That's right. And then the second most obvious reason is it's the person capable of doing it, the person who has the emotional and physical capacity to do it. And it's surprising sometime just an expansion of the family role that's always been there, the dynamics that have always gone on. It's always been the one person who's initiated the family get togethers for, you know, Easter or Christmas or a birthday. But sometimes that changes. Sometimes when an elderly person needs care, it is surprising who it's somebody else who steps up because that person feels More capable. Maybe they're a little bit more detached. Maybe someone else is feeling too overwhelmed and emotional about the decline of the parent and they can't do it. And it shocks everybody.
They over invest it.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, the geography one's so interesting, isn't it? Because this, you know, like in the world we live in, people live overseas. And I think that when it's geography, it's kind of understandable. And I do think often for the one who's the main person who's looking after an elder parent, I think the reason that the siblings can't step up is a big factor. Because I think if it's geography versus won't, that's a big difference.
It is. But sometimes geography, seriously is the difference between five kilometres away versus 20 kilometres away. You know, the person who's five kilometres away is expected to do more than the person who's gonna take them 20 or 30 minutes to drive there, you know, so it may, of course, if they're overseas, they can't pop around with the chocolate. But it's amazing. I hear so many stories saying, well, you can do it. You're around the corner, you do it and you think, yeah, well, you can just set off a bit earlier. So there's that. And that would be the final reason why it normally rests on one person is cause no one else will step up. That's what happens. One person steps up and as soon as someone steps up, normally the others step back and think, okay, cool, you've got this, You've got this right behind you.
Off you go, we've got you. Like that's the whole thing.
Like, well, that's what said, have they got you?
That's the issue, I think for a lot of us, I mean, what, you know, people were responding to Kerry and one of them said, you know, what do you do when your sibling doesn't want to help and won't even talk about it or give moral support? It's left me feeling so alone.
And let's start with what you shouldn't do. And that is what most people do do, which is bottle it up. And then every couple of months absolutely explode and just say, that's it. You're all so slack. I can't do it, I hate you. I can't do this on my own. Please help. And that's useless because what do they do? They go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Most of the time they say, yes, I'm so sorry, so sorry, you've done so much. Yes, we will help. Yes, yes, no, don't worry. But that doesn't happen. And that's a bit like, you know, when you had younger children and you'd say, come on, everyone, this house is a pigsty. Everybody needs to step up and do their bit and clean their rooms and help. And everyone goes, yes, yes, sorry, Mum. Yep, yep, we're there. But how long does that last? So it doesn't work. It doesn't work to bottle it up and then explode. That's not the way to do it.
Yeah, yeah. And then the 20 year olds still don't clean their room, so you don't bottle it up. But can you just say, I'm feeling really alone here?
Absolutely.
Do you. Guilty. You talk though. Is that gonna put people off?
Well, not if you just say it like that. That's a beautiful way to put it. I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm feeling really alone. That's good because, you know an old psychobabble talk. That's not saying you make me feel, you know, that I. Yeah, that's right. I'm feeling overwhelmed or I'm feeling alone. But most importantly, the whole key to this is you have to be. You have to say, hey, I need a bit of help. Think about who you're asking, think about what their strengths might be. And so it might be something like, hey, do you think you could pop in once a week and do some washing for mum? Or do you think every two or four weeks you could go and mow dad's lawn, have a cup of tea with him? Or do you think you could take care of this particular managing it?
You're still kind of got the emotional load of having to think what other people can do and how you can help me. And in the end you go, I can't be bothered thinking about what you can do. I'll just do it myself.
Sarah cannot. You cannot think like that, okay? Anybody out there thinking like that, Stop it. Stop it.
No.
As Bob Newhart used to say, stop it. Okay, that's crazy. That is crazy to try and get everybody to think the way you do. They're not, they're not going to do it. There's always somebody who is in charge if you like. And if you don't want to be in charge, fine. Make that decision. Hey, guys, I'm not going to do it anymore. I'm going to step back, let me know what you want me to do. If you want to do that big call, do that. But it's going to be a big call for that person who just can't do it. So I'm so glad you said that, because that's such a big mistake is to say, I don't want to be the one delegating. I want you to all just realise there's a lot to do. Pick a job and do it again. I use the same sort of example in a household. Does that ever work? Can everybody just have a look and have a look around at what needs to be done? And I'll tell you a funny story. Years ago, clearly decades ago, my husband Andy and I were having a 40th birthday dinner party and having 18 people over for dinner. And I'm a cook and I love it. And I was madly doing all the cooking and, you know, setting the table, making it all beautiful. And Andy came and said, what can I do? And I said this. You can please, just look around, find a job, do it. Name one. There's so many to do. He went, gotcha. Off he goes. Anyway, after about 20 minutes, I couldn't find him, couldn't see any job being done, nothing. I seriously. I found him behind a door with a dustpan and broom sweeping up some imaginary dust. And I just burst out laughing and said, what are you doing? He said, I don't know. I couldn't find anything. I said, okay, okay, okay. Can you go and get some ice? Can you go and put out some drinks? And he's going, yep, yep, yep, on it. You know, so it's crazy getting back to this. It's crazy to say to your siblings, please, I need so much help. There's so much to do to help Mum or Dad or both. Can you just find something and help me? They'll go, yep, got it.
Okay. All right. So delegate.
You have to delegate.
Be the commander in chief.
Be the commander in chief.
Set little tasks that people can do and that are achievable. Gotta feel like a schoolteacher. But, yeah, that's the way you do it.
That's what works. That's what works. And again, you can give as many tasks you want. You can sit back, you know, with your own glass of Prosecco and say, right, who else is gonna do this? Yeah.
Is there kind of like an archetype of siblings and care? Like the. For instance, the absent one.
And that can be, you know, physically or mentally.
Yeah, that's right. Exactly. And again, I think there's a difference between those. Like, these are ones I've seen the critic, and I think the critic is a hard one. When they're not doing much and then they come in and criticise. What you are doing that can blow your head off.
Yeah, absolutely. And especially the stories I hear is when they come and they do finally show up and visit the elderly parent and they say, oh my gosh, you know, they hadn't eaten this, what's in their fridge, what have you done? They were in this, you know, there was mess on their shirt, you know. Yeah, really critical and you're thinking, you have got to be getting just. Yeah, so that is a very hard one to deal with. But again we'll get to what to do about these archetypes.
Okay, yeah, hacks are coming people. The overseas one which we talked about. Or they can be distant 20 kilometres as opposed to 5 kilometres. The busy one, I love this. The busy one, look, I could do that but unfortunately I've got two children and a job. It's like I've got two children and a job as well. But you like the busy one's good.
It'S handy, it's handy.
It's like your handy Andy with the.
Dust in the corner, useless.
But that's the thing, my busy is more important than your busy.
Absolutely, absolutely. And even when you say, you know, I was saying before, give them a specific job, they can often say, oh actually that's not going to work, I'm really busy, I've got to do this, this and that. So then that's when you say, okay, busy one, what will work? Give them an open ended question, tell me what you could do, what can you fit in to your. Incredibly, there is no point. That's the thing and I know it's so much easier said than done, but there is no point at this stage in life trying to change your siblings and their personalities. You can't do it, you have to do what you know, psychologists always talking about is you have to have empathy for them and that doesn't mean agree with them, you know that you can still be really irritated but you can think, okay, this person, this is their personality, this is what they're capable of, this is what they're capable of, this is what I'm dealing with. So you gotta deal with that, that's.
What they can do.
And if they're busy, the best way to get something out of the busy person is to start with, I know you are so busy but would you mind just doing this, not sarcastically, Mike? No, it has to be with genuine, as I always say, get the nod from the. As soon as you say, I know you're flat out, it's a huge week for you, but do you Think you could. Would Saturday be better or Tuesday night? What would work in your incredible schedule?
And they'll go see that. But what's interesting is. And so there's that whole thing about, like, ask a busy woman if you want something done, ask a busy woman to do it. You kind of become a little bit trapped by your capability, don't you? In caring you kind of. It's that care, capability, not prison. That's the wrong word. But, yeah, you're kind of trapped by it in some ways. And you said that, like, the capable one ends up taking over because they can. That's what they're capable of.
Yeah, that's right. So that is the, you know, a very big reason why one person ends up doing most of the. Taking most of the load. But there's a flip side to this, Sarah, is in that capable person, I'm generalising, but they usually not very good at stepping back. So we can't always blame everybody else for leaving it to this capable person. If that capable person is not willing to step back and be delegated to.
Okay, well, I want to get to that in a second. But the other stereotypes are the overwhelmed one. I want to help, but I can't do it. Does that clock.
Oh, it certainly does. Some people just do not cope with the decline in their parents. You know, they have always felt like the child and they are the child, and they're used to going over to mum's house or dad's house and being looked after and sitting down saying, oh, I'm so looking forward to this special roast you're gonna cook me, Mum. They can't cope with the decline and the role.
The flip.
Yeah, they can't cope with the flip. And they find it too upsetting and they say things like that, sorry, I find it too depressing to go and find dad sitting in that chair watching daytime television. I can't do it. I can't do it.
I guess it's good if they say that, like, be honest, like, if you are listening to this and you are that sibling, like owners just say, I'm so sorry, I can't do it, but I can do their tax.
Yeah, exactly. Now, and that's a really good point. That's the delegation. They might be able to do that admin or the finance deal with it.
It is confronting. It's so confronting. The other one is the genuinely unable one because they've got their own problems and, you know, their own shit to deal with, really. And that's understandable.
And normally when that's the case, the siblings all agree and say, hey, let's give that person some leeway. They can't. Yeah. They can't take on more.
Yeah, yeah. Listen to this comment though. This is from Meg. I'm floored by how all my siblings play dumb. I would love some help. Any nice ways to encourage help or support? I'm exhausted. Like, what's a nice way of sounding asking for help without sounding desperate or accusatory? You mentioned the kind of delegating of task, but how do you put it so it doesn't sound like, you know, I'm flailing here and I'm accusing you of not stepping up and by again.
Owning how you're feeling.
And those I statements.
Yeah, those I statements. But let's add another layer. Let's start with some empathy for the other person, you know, so say if the other person is playing dumb, right? So they're completely. They act like they're unaware that mum or dad need any help whatsoever. And more importantly, they're unaware that you're doing so much for them. So if you can have think for yourself, who is this Think, you know, who is this person? Why are they unaware? Have they always been unaware? Are they always blissfully ignorant of anything? Are they quite happily going through life?
This is the way they've lived the whole life.
Yeah, exactly. So just remind yourself of that before you talk because if you go into a conversation, they're gonna go, huh, what are you talking about? So be aware of that and then actually introduce the whole topic like that. I know you go through life and sometimes I envy you because you seem so less stressed than I am and I really do envy you and that's quite good. You probably just, you know, stop and smell the roses and that is great. I get it.
I wish I could be blissful and ignorant.
I wish I. Yeah, but you're saying in a genuine.
You don't say ignorant.
Yeah, but a genuine way. I know you. That's what you're trying to start with. I know you and I know you're a good person and I'm not accusing you of it. So let them hear that you see them. Does that make sense? And then say, then you're asking them to see you.
Yes, I see you see me. That's right, see what I'm doing.
But if you don't start with I see you. Not an accusatory way, not putting them on a guilt trip, just saying, I get that. That's you and I get it works really well for you. And Sometimes I really envy it because I really see how it benefits you and I see how successful and happy you are in life and that's great. But can I now let you into what's going on for me?
See what I'm doing?
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. I think that often that's it, isn't it? You just want to be seen and thanked. Like just a nice thank you every now and again.
Yes.
Would be good, I think, for a lot of people.
Well, I think in life generally we respond so well to positive feedback, so well to thanks.
We're all just children.
We are just good job. Remember, we did that at unisas. We did conditioned stimulus. We've got to. We respond to those star chart. Yes, exactly. A star chart. So we do respond, but we can't. We've got to remember, don't do anything for thanks because there are a lot of people who are. That's what's really eating them up. I don't get thanked for this. So again, ask yourself, well, am I going to stop even if I'm not thanked? No. So I've got to try and let some of that go. But for anyone who's out there listening and they're so aware that one sibling, one of your siblings, is carrying the vast majority of the load, then please thank them. Please send them a voucher for a massage. Oh, yeah, please just send them a text. Just, you know, thank you. Yes.
You're amazing.
You're amazing.
There's your star chart.
There's your star chart.
Remember, if you needed one, you were little. You probably do then.
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What about the money thing? Because I think this is another thing that gets to people. Here's another comment. I can't look at my sister anymore. She only engages when she wants something and it's usually money. Because when you are doing a lot for a loved one and you're caring, the time is money thing is real. Like you're reducing your work in your paid job, maybe you've had to even go part time so you're actually losing money. And if the family paid for the care that you're doing, oh my God, that would be costing them a lot of money. So you're saving their money and then they're asking for money. Like money must have, don't you reckon, like a big factor in all of this?
Huge. In fact, I would say in my little office, one of the major disputes that starts arising at this time of life is over money. And in lots of ways, yeah, one of exactly how you're talking about is that free labour and the others are left to continue in their careers contributing to their super, super funds.
That's right.
And you're not. So there's that one. And then you've got a very common one where other members of the family saying, really, does mum or dad need all that care? You know, the care that you get in to give yourself a break, you know that you get somebody in to do some gardening or help with some meals or something. And other siblings are saying, well how much is that costing? How much? And then you say, well that's because I spent three weeks doing a care package and all the admin that that took, so please don't comment on that. So there's that. And then the other one is that it can draw people out that sniffing of hot on what money is there? You know, is it possible to. What do you think about $10,000 just to help with this little renovation I've got going on? Do you think you could release that early inheritance?
Oh my God, that's a whole other. That is a whole other conversation and a whole pit of despair and a money pit really, isn't it? Like that can just go on. But yeah, I think acknowledging someone's unpaid labour is a really, really good one. So you mentioned kind of earlier, Jo, about checking yourself. Are you, I don't know, like a bit of a control freak is what you're kind of saying here. Like, can you let go a little bit and is that capability kind of costing you a little bit? And I think that's really interesting. I want to read you this letter that's come in from Jenny. Okay. Listen to this. The seating chart that broke me. It's the title. It's got a nice ring to it. So it's quite long. I'll just read some of it. But Jenny hosted a big family lunch with her family, her sister's family and the parents. And she planned everything very carefully, including where everyone would sit because her dad's got dementia and he gets confused. So she wanted him to be next to the mum and then her sister came and moved everybody and she said, no, no, no, dad needs to sit next to the kids. He's fine, stop babying him. He needs to socialise with the kids. So we sat down for lunch and dad couldn't see mum and he got really confused and he couldn't an kids questions about what did you used to do, Grandpa? He got upset, he knocked over a glass and my sister said, oh, that was awkward. Next time don't sit in with the kids. And she was the one that did sit in with the kids. Right. I went over into the kitchen and I sobbed over a frigging seating chart because she didn't understand the hours I spent planning this. I think about the lighting for dad, not too bright. I think about the noise levels, not too many people talking at once. I think about the routine, familiar foods. I do all this invisible work so dad can participate without falling apart. And then she shows up a couple of times a year, rearranges everything, and then blames any disasters on me for not planning enough. So how do you manage family gatherings when some people see the daily reality and others only see it occasionally? And how do you explain the infrastructure you've built up to keep everything collapsing? I don't wanna cry over seating charts anymore.
No, but how much do you feel for Jenny? Oh, my God. You know, there's. There's just everything we're talking about in a nutshell. I know she's carrying most of the load, nearly all of the load on herself, and she's thinking of absolutely everything. Lighting, lighting. I mean, what a beautiful person. So let's not get past the fact that this is a beautiful human being full of so much love and care. Big mistake Jenny's making though, is thinking that you can control everything by thinking. If I think about lighting and sound and seating and food, then dad will be okay. But there are other elements, like a sister. There's other personalities that come in. So, you know, I mean, I could sit here and advise, well, next time, Jenny, make sure you speak to your sister or any other sibling and say, hey, this is what I'm doing. This is why I'm doing it. But then we're just giving Jenny more to put on her list of things to. To try and control. So again, this is where. When you're saying, do we sometimes have to look at ourselves? We do. Because sometimes things just. We have to be open to the possibility that no matter how much we try and control a situation. And I'm not talking about a controlling nature. You're trying to control other people. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about trying to control your environment to make it work. And what I think back to. And I'm thinking right now because I've got a new grandchild and it's so lovely. And I'm always on at my daughter, you know, about control. Because that's what I often saw with young mums, the ones who tried to control things as much as possible. The lighting, the sound around the house, the temperature in the room, the time of feeding, the time of going down. They're the ones who are most likely to struggle because they felt out of control as soon as something else changed, something got in the way of everything they'd thought of and it didn't work out and the baby didn't sleep or the child didn't get there.
It's the same sort of thing.
It is exactly the same sort of thing. So by all means, Jenny, have a seating plan. How beautiful. And yes, probably explain it to the others who are coming. This is why I'm doing it. But also, we have to remind ourselves, don't expect. It's about expectations. We cannot expect everything to go smoothly if we try and think of everything. Because there will be things that you do not predict, things that you can't. And that's when you're gonna say, oh, right, there's another one. And again. But don't make that add to your list. Okay, next time I'll think about that as well.
So let's talk about some hacks, right? Because I think this will be helpful for people. So if you're a sibling and some of this has sounded a bit difficult and you've heard it and you think, well, I might be that absent one, or I might be that one who's checked out, you can, you said book a massage. You can say thank you.
You could ask what you could specifically do. To help?
Yeah.
You could say, hey, look, I've just been thinking about. You are carrying so much of the load.
I thought you said you're a caring. No, no, no, no, Never do that.
No, no, no, no, Never do that. No, no. You're carrying so much of the load. So is there something, you know, I could do? I am very busy or I can't cope with a lot, or I can't cope with spending a lot of time in the house or the nursing home because it really depresses. So what can I do or even suggest? So it's not always up to that main carer to think of it. Say, would it help you if I did the tax. Would it help you if I contacted the dentist to see when's the next visit, you know, or the specialist, you know, when you're far away. Yeah. When you're far away, would that help?
Yeah. And if you are the capable one, the main thing it seems I'm getting from you is don't expect it to be different. Don't expect anyone else to be different.
And don't expect them to think the way you do. That's the big one, you know, that it's. Everybody does that. Just the way, you know, we think about the world, that's why we become intolerant of others, because we just expect others to behave and think the way we do and when they don't, it's so disappointing. And we get. So why can't they think like that? Especially when we are perfect. No, I mean, please don't you just.
Understand, I've got everything together and you should be able to do it like this.
That's right. Well, yeah, no, so, yeah, just check those expectations. And especially when, as I said, sometimes it changes at this stage of life, but most commonly it is just very consistent with that personality type that you have known all your life. So why are you expecting them to be any different right now?
That's why it's interesting for me because I was never the capable one. I was the second child who was a bit sort of hopeless and vague. But I've had to step into something that I don't. Doesn't come naturally for me.
Yeah. So that's gonna be even harder for you because it's not your natural.
It's not my natural space. But, you know, I'm learning to be a control freak. Not I'm not a control freak, which is a very good thing.
And on that one, sorry, can I just add a really important point is, again, I harp back to Other stages of life. And that's what's great about Club Sandwich is that there are all these stages going on at the same time. But, you know, when you've got young children, often parents fight over about this because one parent who is in control is saying, no, but this is what you should do with the child. This is how you should dress them, this is how you should interact with them. This is how you should play with them. And when the other one doesn't, they say, listen, I can't do it all. I can't do it all. You've got to do it more like me. You see how this is quite consistent through life. It's normally the same sort of personalities. So if you think back, if you were the sort of person who, when you were a parent of a young child, was often arguing with the other parent about how they were not doing things your way, then just check yourself and say, oh, I might be doing that again. I might be doing. I might have to relinquish some control. I might have to let the other parent parent their way. I might have to let the other siblings be a carer. Yeah, carent their way. We just have to watch that because that is a very. Or a friend. You know, we get the same thing across all areas of your life. You know, you can be more of an initiator with a certain friend who never is the one who rings you. You always ring them, but you keep being disappointed. Yeah. Does that make sense? So we just got to sometimes check ourselves.
Check yourself. Check yourself.
All right.
Well, I think that is really helpful and makes you think about your siblings in a different way. I guess you've got to kind of think about what's going on for them. And I guess that's the other thing for a sibling who's not there. Don't call a sibling who is controlling everything control freak, even if they are.
But it's such a harsh term because that word, control sounds like you're a nasty person who's trying to control others. You're not. A control freak means you're trying to control your situation to make it best for everybody.
You're meaning well. Yeah, you're meaning really well. You're trying to keep the sandwich all together so the bits just don't fall over and squish onto your lap or down your front when you've got something to go to that afternoon. So, any other hacks?
I think it's really good to remember when we were talking about finding an ally before. Sometimes there is no one in the extended family or friends who can actually help you with your elderly parent. But there are others in the same boat. Remember the old mothers groups, parents groups. It's really nice to talk to people who are going through the same thing. So just to share the load, say, I know what you mean, sister. I'm doing that myself.
Preach.
Yeah, that's right.
That's what club sandwich is like. You can go on the Facebook and you put stuff up.
Wonderful. Then do that, go there. Because I think when you feel validated, even if it's not someone within your family, then that's still validation. You still feel understood, you still feel heard. And that ally might be somebody who cannot do anything for you practically, but gosh, they can give you a lot of support and validation if you're an only child too.
Yeah, that's a big factor, isn't it?
Huge. Huge.
So here's what I'm hearing as a kind of closing truth on this. Fear doesn't exist as much as you may want it to. It's been the hardest thing for me to let go of. Do what you can do. Don't expect anyone to rescue you or come in and save you and just help others, help you as much as you can.
Perfectly said. Yes. And then the last thing we should really touch on is looking after yourself. Because that thing, that thing, remember that one, Sarah? Because that's the other thing that people think I don't have time. Because between the kids and work and parents, they don't. And that's why that's a really hard thing for the main carer to do is to say, oh, I am not going to go and visit mum this weekend because I'm gonna go away with my girlfriend, we're gonna have lots of laughs, you know, and I'm going to go to that comedy show tonight or I'm going to, you know, just have some me time. I'm not going to do that. That is very hard for someone who is carrying the load. But that is very important.
Again, I think we can go into much more detail about that. What real self care is versus a candle. Don't give us a candle. No vanilla candle. Oh, speaking of vanilla, not gonna cut it. But I do like to finish every episode by saying, okay, what are you gonna do for yourself this week? So have a think about that. What are you gonna do for yourself this week? What are you gonna do, Jo?
Oh, well, I'm gonna be cuddling a grandchild as much as possible.
You're not putting him down? No, no, you're not gonna give him back.
No, no.
Arms are locked.
Yep. That's for me. Good.
What a divine love. I am going to do a yoga class and look at maybe becoming a yoga teacher.
Wow.
I'm looking into it.
Love that.
I know, right?
Yeah.
Yoga for care is when you've tied yourself in a knot.
Excellent.
How you undo it all.
Excellent.
Maybe. Let's see. I'm not promising anything. I'm not over committing.
You don't have to.
Okay, time to shut the club for the week. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Jo.
Thanks.
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