Having A Play: Trying New Things In Midlife | Indira Naidoo | Club Sandwich
" I always find that there's part of me here, and there's another part of me swimming with the fish in the sea at the same time."
In this episode, Indira Naidoo joins Sarah to talk about her new role with the Sydney Theatre Company, spending time under her tree, and the importance of creativity in her life.
They reflect on rediscovering play and creativity in midlife, the limits of journalism in changing narratives, and how crafts, gardening, and making art can calm anxiety and restore balance.
Indira shares her approach to ageing as a natural cycle, prioritising presence and family time after years of night work, and learning from nature and finding joy.
Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.
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Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.
This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.
Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.
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Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
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Transcript
Club Sandwich is recorded on Gadigal Land, home of the EORA Nation. We pay our respects to elders past and present. Always was, always will be.
Club Sandwich is brought to you by Australian Unity Home Health and Care, helping Australian families keep their parents well, independent and at home for longer. Visit australianunity.comauclubsandwich. Hello. Welcome to Club Sandwich. Now, this is the podcast for you if you have a career in caring and you probably also have a career in paid work as well. My name is Sarah McDonald and that's been me for the last 15 years. A special guest today on the podcast, Indira Naidoo. Now, you may have read some of her beautiful writing, you may have seen her on television or heard her on the radio. She's done so many things and she's about to do something very different, quite wild and exciting. And we thought we'd talk about careers and playing with new things with Indira Naidu, because all work and no play makes us very dull.
Very dull, doesn't it? I know. Very exciting to be here with you.
So great to have you.
How many pairs of glasses do you have?
Only two.
Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah, only two, because I always lose one. So, yeah, I've got another new pair, but I lost my other pair.
I like red, like pink. Works very well.
I know Katie Noonan and I were basically wearing the same pair. It was ridiculous. So this is what we want to talk about today. Taking on new, exciting adventures in midlife. And this is hard for the sandwich generation because we're so squished that we can often feel really stale. But you can do this in so many different ways. So tell me what you're doing.
Well, it wasn't something that I ever expected to be doing, but when you think of your life and the things you've done, they are often the most fun things. They're not the things you planned for, but the things that just came up. You got a call out of the blue. Hey, do you want to do this? And this is what happened with this latest project. I got a call out of the blue from a casting agent that wanted to know if I was interested in auditioning for a play that was going to be part of the STC's new season this year at Sydney Theatre Company
at the Opera House. Thank you very much.
And those two combinations, the stc, the Opera House, I'm not quite sure, but send me the play. Let me read it and see. See what I think. Anyway, the play was just stunning by Emily Steele. Really funny political comedy. So right up Our alley. All those issues that we've been covering as journalists in the last few years with the shenanigans that go into trying to be a female political leader in Parliament House in Canberra and how difficult that is. And I can't say too much about the specific roles I play, but I play a few of those roles involved in that. So I auditioned and lo and behold, they said, sure, we're gonna give you the role. So there I am, a thespian. A thespian about to be on the stage of the Opera House.
At the Opera House. And the production's called Housework.
It's called Housework and it stars. I've just got two little tiny cameos, but it star Susie Youssef, who's a wonderful comedian.
She's very talented.
And Emily Tahini is one of my favorite character actors from Mad as hell with Sean McAuliffe. So they're the two main leads. And then there's some brilliant younger actors like Frankel Lafoss and Johnny Nasser that you may have seen in, I think he was in Thor, and a young actor who I think is going to be really big Danny Ball. And so they play the other main roles. And I sort of just nip in and out. I'm just looking forward to that. That energy of being part of a cast and you're all there on stage together. It's play. I'm playing characters who are not me. And, you know, when you're broadcasters and journalists, you don't often get a chance to play like that, you know, to be someone else.
Well, just to play. That's all.
Yeah, or just to play.
And it's kind of made like you think about your childhood. We have this creativity within us and this sense of play, like everything is about play. That's how we learn and we gradually lose it as we get older. And so is this lovely aspect for you of sort of coming back to that childhood wonder and play.
Yeah. And also finding cause. One of the other things I'm really fascinated by, Sarah, is finding different ways to tell a story. And sometimes as journalists, you present lots of facts and you hope that that will then change the narrative in some way, but of course it doesn't. The facts just load up and we still end up with no one taking action on climate change. So I'm always fascinated. Well, what happens if I encourage people to build gardens? Will that make them look at the environmental sustainability differently? So it's not a journalistic way of looking at it, but that engagement obviously changes me. But hopefully Changes the discussion and the way people engage with something. So for me, this theatre piece is very much about the issues, about the challenges of what it's like to be a woman leader, to be in politics, how the system treats women and quite unfairly how you juggle being a child carer and also sitting those horrific hours in Parliament House. But rather than telling the story as a journalist, you tell the story as one of the characters in that scenario. And so hopefully the audience then engages with what is playing out on stage with a different side of their brain.
I think that's true. It's like comedy and it's. And it's. Yeah. And it's funny and it's funny. I think, you know, we've found the limitations of journalism. You're quite right. And I think this is a stage and age in many people's lives where they are reassessing their career and their jobs and what their been doing. Sometimes the workplace is reassessing them because of, you know, people are losing their jobs because of middle aged, a lot of change. Yeah. AI and discrimination and all that sort of stuff. And people are thinking, is there other parts of myself that I can bring out? Because that part of myself is no longer working in the right way or work's not fulfilling me in the right way.
And we're going to be around for a lot longer than I think we hope. Yeah, most of us than we expected, I guess. So, you know, we, you and I could be stepping into another 25 years of being creative and that wouldn't have been something that was available to our parents generation. So what are we going to do with that time? And if those other parts of the, you know, workforce we've explored are close to us or, or not operating in the way that we're excited by, what are we going to do with those 25 years? So for me that's a very exciting stage to be in now because creativity is so much bigger than, than we give it the space and time for and there's, there's no reason why you couldn't be doing well. Not that I'm wanting this to become an acting, you know, sort of pathway for me.
You're getting an agent, you know, auditioning for other things.
Yeah, let's see. No, not like that. But who knows, maybe, you know, who knows? For me it's not so much about, you know, we don't look at it as a career path nowadays. It's more just is it going to be fun? Let's have a good time. Let's Enjoy it.
Following what's calling you.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
I want to get back to creativity because I find this really interesting that creativity starts calling you back because we get trapped in the mundanity of life and work and, you know, all the things around it. I think sometimes and I see people coming back like, I know a couple of friends who have done pottery classes and I'm laughing, I'm like, oh my God, you're middle aged women who do pottery. And I went to a pottery workshop with friends for a friend's birthday. There's 10 women around the table and we're making goddesses, but with true boobs and big stomachs and butts and not skinny ones. And these women never shut up. And all of a sudden, 10 women at the table, they put their hands on their clay and there was just this sort of silence and people were really getting into it and it was like this creativity was just bursting out of them. It's quite beautiful. Like, how do we. What have you learnt about keeping that creativity alive and letting it flourish in other ways in your middle years?
I've always sketched and painted. I've never stopped doing that all through my life. And maybe that creative part of me is what has encouraged me to just step out of that more straight jacketed, you know, news and journalism.
Cause you've never let it go.
No, I've never let it go. So I'm always. I'll wake up in the morning and if it's a beautiful day and it's a blue sky and the trees are calling me, it can be sometimes hard to go. Why do I want to sit in a studio today? I just want to go and roll around under a tree and maybe make a sketch or, you know, there's another part of my creativity that is always pulling me to wherever it needs to be. So I've always. Yeah, so I always find that there's part of me here and there's another part of me swimming, you know, with the fish in the sea at the same time. So every part of my day I need to express it in some creative way. So broadcasting is one way, writing is another. Cooking a meal, painting something, doing a sketch, doing some gardening. I crochet as well.
Do you? Oh my gosh, so many people are coming back. My daughter is so into knitting. It's incredible that coming back to that, crafting as an art form.
And it's wonderful again, just during a period now of greater anxiety. If you can occupy your hands and be doing something creative, it's A great way to calm the mind down as well, so I can do all of those things in one day. And I've always had that mix in one day. And so any day that it's just doing one thing, I find that very straight jacketing for me, so. Which is why it's not so difficult to stop doing things or to start up something new. Because for me, it's just. It's like being a kid at school. And it's another lesson that the. The bell's gone. Okay, we're moving to art class now or we're going to move to the garden now. That's how I see my day.
Really?
Yeah.
Do you still feel that child within you that did that craft?
Yeah. As my husband always says to me, if you could just be at school for the rest of your life, you would. And I would. I loved school. I loved putting on a smock and painting stuff and that constant learning and never knowing what you were gonna learn either. I love the openness and the unstructuredness of it. And I know a lot of people saw school exactly the opposite. They found it very containing and very rigid and disciplined. But for me, it was never like that. I never experienced it like that.
That's so interesting. And, you know, there's a lot of. In aged care, they do a lot of craft with some of the residents and at dementia daycare programs and things like that. And you kind of can have, on the surface, like, laugh at it, but I actually think it's quite beautiful. And you can do it with your parent because why shouldn't you have access to that as well? It's a whole different part of the brain.
It's really important because we allow our left brain to run too much of the show. And so when you allow that right brain to start expressing yourself, I think that that's when balance comes back into. And also the mystery of, you know, that sometimes the black and whiteness of what most of our daily work is, you know, doesn't explain the mystery of life, you know, why something moves us or, you know, there's been a viral video that this little kid, you know, the Eastern rosella kid.
Oh, the rosella kid, yeah.
And I'm always fascinated what it is about that that everyone connected with and what's given everyone so much joy, you know, and it's obvious the little kid is just brilliant. He's having so much fun and it's a catchy tune and things, but I love those things that burst into the structure of our day and everyone Goes, ooh, why are we so affected by that? Why has that lifted our mood? You know? And I think we're always looking for those moments in our day. And it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be a big, you know, overseas trip or anything. It can just be noticing the sun coming through the leaves of the tree or, you know, the way the light plays on the water when you're sitting, you know, near a creek or a river. I think that they're all these little moments around us all the time that are making us, reminding us of the beauty of what's around us and who we are as humans. But sometimes we can get just too caught up in the process of the day that we don't take the time to look at it. But I think that the more creativity of other people and the more that I can tap into and that I can bring out in myself, that for me is like the perfect day.
Yeah. If you can access it and bring it back. I think it's a beautiful gift of this stage of life as well.
Yep.
I met a bunch of women recently who do cold water swimming and they do it because they feel that life can just be really the same and just so much work and they kind of love the shock to the system that that entails and doing something that scares them a bit. Right. Like, so I did, I did a stand up comedy course for one day and then we did a five minute routine. And I did it because it was absolutely terrifying for me. And there's something about sort of just doing something that scares you that I think, I mean, are you nervous about being on the opera house stage as an actor? Like, is that part of it? Or you take everything and it's.
I don't know if it's nerve. I mean, it's, you know, it's similar to how we feel as broadcasters before that mic goes on. Just that wonderful, sort of delicious.
It's so different jumping on stage and being an actor, do you think?
I mean, there have been a lot of people that wouldn't be able to do this as well.
Yeah, sure. But I think it is a. It doesn't scare you.
Scary is probably. Look, it probably is that you were talking about deep water swimming. What I love when I go swimming, when I go into the water is you keep walking further and further. And the bit that I really love is just that bit where you just can't touch the sand. Your toes are just above it. That's the bit that I love. So I can see the bottom, but I can't touch it. And so if I can live more of my life in that space, that's what makes me feel very invigorated. So I know that I won't be able to touch the ground on that stage at times, and it's gonna be new and maybe uncomfortable, but it's going to be pushing my barriers and be invigorating because the growth happens. Exactly. And I can feel the oxygen just expressing that because I know that it's not going to be my comfort zone, but I'm going to sort of learn and grow, you know, And I don't mind being a goose. Like, I don't mind standing there and
you don't care anymore, stuffing up a
line, you know, I mean, I.
That's the freedom of aging.
Exactly.
I couldn't give a ruts.
I want to be professional. I don't want to make it worse for the rest of the cast that I'm working with, always, whatever, but I want it to be play. So even though, yes, I have to get the line. But the main thing is, what are we communicating here and what are the emotions and what are the joys and the thrill of having an audience physically with you in the room, which we don't get to do that often with radio and energy. Oh, it is just extraordinary. If I ever get a stage event to do, I'm doing one next week.
Oh, you do a lot of them, don't you? I do and things like that.
But that is an energy that can't be replicated. I mean, it is so thrilling. And the audience makes what you're creating something different, so they're giving back to you as well. And when you just go with that flow, that you're both creating something with that energy. Yeah. Live theatre, there's nothing like it. And I love being part of an audience. And the wonderful thing about theatre, I've been watching a lot of it because of this role with the SD through
a different lens now.
And now I really. You know, I saw Pamela Rabe the other night and just what an extraordinary actor she is. But what I love is in this moment of hyper distraction, what's great about a theatre space is everyone's there without a phone. We're all watching the same thing. We're having the same experience. We have to sit still and sit quietly. We can't go and move anywhere else. And so at the end of that production, we've all had really, a very similar experience. I mean, how we process that is different. But I Love the idea that it's something genuinely shared, communal. Yep. And we just don't get opportunities to do enough of that.
Yes. Oh, no, they're really. They're very fulfilling for the soul, aren't they? And for the spirit. It's a great gift that you're doing to yourself, I think. And I love that you've got that power and that some would say bravery to do it.
Ask me afterwards, maybe I'll go, why did I do that?
No.
But that's part of the excitement.
Exactly.
That's why you're doing it. Cause it does take you into another place. Something we come back to again and again on this show is start early, before there's a crisis, before the family meeting that nobody wants to have. Australian unity home health and care is built exactly for that moment when you can see the need is coming. The care is proactive. It's a dedicated local team, a plan that's actually built around your parent support that grows with them. Before things get hard, don't wait until you're in crisis. Visit australianunity.com.
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Talk to me about, you know, this age and stage of your life because you're late 50s, like a lot of our listeners are sort of probably in their 40s and 50s and 60s or in this sandwich generation. And while we're looking after ageing parents, it's confronting to think about our own ageing as well. Right. It makes us think about how we want to age, how we will age. Will I get to that age? What's going to happen? It can be a powerful experience to think about how you do it differently, perhaps to your parents and how you feel about your own ageing.
Yeah. And it's an interesting era to be doing that too, because there is so much social media about ageing and trying to stop aging. I think we are living through an era where we think it's like an illness that can be cured. And I think a lot of people view it that way. I've got a number of friends that see it that way.
Really?
Yeah. That it's not a natural process, aging. Yes. They think it's an illness that if you get the right treatment or the right pill or injection. Oh, they're doing the peptides, you can stop it happening. And I think generationally and culturally, that's how we look at aging. And I think that's going to be the hard thing. We're probably the last of the generation that understands it's not an illness, it's a natural process. But even people our age, you know, if you showed them a tree and leaves and that whole process, we're exactly the same as a tree. And those leaves crumbling and nourishing and fertilizing the earth and coming back, we're all part of this lovely cycle. And. And I'm looking forward to. I mean, every year I feel I'm happier and more content, and I feel that I'm settling into myself more and more. So I can't imagine, if I'm lucky enough to live to 80 or 90, how I'll be feeling then. Like how loving being me. I'm going to feel. You can get even more so I think I will.
So you're loving being you more?
I'm loving much more and just much more grateful. You know, we're losing a lot of friends and colleagues, so the discussion really shouldn't even be about ageing. It's about how to live well. And for me, that's very much how I think of it. I try to make every day, what do I want to do today? And how do I make that happen, and how do I make sure that that's how I spend the day?
How will I be creative? How will I be stimulated?
Yeah. Or how will I just connect tonight? Or how will I just sit quietly, you know, and just sit under my tree again? This busyness, that was the badge that we've got used to running with. It doesn't really hold much attraction to me anymore.
No. And I think a lot of people are trapped in busyness that they don't want to be in at this time of their life. And that's part of the frustration of this time of life, that they don't have that time. And, yeah, I think the busyness trap is a big one. You kind of think back of going, I've been too busy. I haven't allowed enough space in My life. But you're saying there's a joy in getting to know yourself, appreciate yourself, like yourself. Are you becoming more of yourself? Like, are you becoming your true nature?
I think I'm very lucky in a way that that voice in my head, and I know I've talked to a number of people about it. Usually that voice in your head is quite. That is not your best friend. It's a voice going that will say, oh, my God, I can't believe you said that. Oh, God, you're so hopeless. Or, why can't you get yourself together? I've been lucky that the voice in my head is actually my best friend.
So all your life or.
All my life. So even when I stuff up and I don't get things done or whatever, she's always there. Don't worry, darl.
Talk to. You'll be fine.
Exactly. Pick yourself up. Get on with things. So I have had that. I'm very lucky. But now, as I get older, I don't even sometimes need to hear that voice in my head because where I am and what I'm doing is so aligned to how I feel. I don't feel I'm trying to be something else or pretend to be something else. I feel that where I am is where I'm meant to be. So it feels much calmer. There's a lot less noise in my head. And you just trust your own instincts a lot more. And even when someone else says, oh, you should do this, or that will be good, when I feel not really, I trust that rather than to go along with it or to please someone else. I think. I think as women, obviously, you know, that is a big challenge for us. We tend to be pleasers, and we put a lot of other people's wants and needs before our own. And there are times you have to.
You have to. When you.
Yeah, but there are also times that you have to say, actually, this is as important as other people's needs and expectations as well. So I. I think that's becoming a lot clearer for me in this age. And just more, you know, we would spend. Spend time with our grandchildren on the weekend, and I realized you just want to muck around a lot more.
So back to that play.
Back to that play. And being really ridiculous and really silly and to an extent that you embarrass them, really, by, you know, what you're
doing and how you.
That's part of your job.
Yeah, exactly. And that's really lovely, you know, so it almost feels like you're coming full circle Because I really believe that, that when you're a child, you are born with all knowledge and you know everything. And what we do to children is we undo and we tell them they're wrong or take that off or stop touching that or putting that in your mouth. And no, don't cry. That's not what, you know, big people do. And we undo it all. And then we live this.
And we slimy their creation.
We do. And we live this slightly more miserable adult life because of it. And then when we get to this age, we then start to rediscover that child again and we go back. So it's this circle that we go through, you know, so. Which I actually do meet a lot of older people who are really happy and having a great time.
Well, there's that happiness curve. Right. So. So the happiness curve in life has. I think it can be at the bottom when you're, when you're in your sort of early middle aged years, when there's a lot going on, looking after elderly parents and young kids and possibly ill health and menopause and all that sort of stuff. But the big thing is it's going up, you know, it's gonna go up. And it does go up. And people, yes, in their 60s and 70s are living their best lives. If their health is good, they're loving life. And your brain's still developing and you develop a different. I was reading something yesterday, you develop a different form of intelligence, which is that self knowledge, intergenerational, but also interpersonal intelligence actually gets higher. So it's not all going downhill.
No. And also too this, the idea that happiness will come when all the bad things stop and you realize that's not how it's gonna happen. There are gonna continue to be challenges, mental health and dementia and physical health. But that doesn't mean that you can't find joy in the presence of those difficult things. That everything I believe that you need to be joyous, you have within yourself. And it's not dependent on what the reality is of an illness or something as well.
You sound like a Buddhist. It's very. A lot of your philosophy is quite. Is it Buddhist or is it. It's just stuff you've.
Everything I know I've learned from my tree, Sarah.
It's all from your beautiful tree.
My tree.
Talk about in your home.
Yeah.
Yes. So you sit under that tree and that comes back to that self knowledge. It's within you and it's about you accessing it, that your tree's helping you
to access and also just noticing what happens with a tree. I mean, you know, we think as humans, bipedal humans, we get around and we're. We're more superior and we're at the top of the chain and we can do all these amazing things, and a tree's just stat and it just stays there. But I remember, especially during COVID where we were running around trying to find toilet paper and food and whatever was going on, and everyone was, you know, having all these dramas. And this tree, I'd go and visit it every day. It stayed in the one place it got all the food it needed. It didn't fight over toilet paper. It looked after itself, but stayed in one place. And not only that, we would go and hide in our homes, thinking we were gonna get some virus. But this tree stayed exposed. It protected itself. And then all these other creatures around it, all these insects and bir and bugs, were all taking, you know, protection underneath it, as was I. And so not only did it have the energy to look after itself, but its whole community as well, without moving, you know. And I did come away from that thinking, I wish I could be a tree. Well, you know, it was a very simplified, but so strong.
So you still go to your tree?
Oh, yeah. I was there this morning. Yeah. So amazing. They're amazing beings. Yeah.
Has people. Since your book come out, have people found your tree and sat under it and gone?
Not only that, the Botanic Gardens had to draw a map so people could find the tree.
Indira tree.
They would, yeah. Can you tell us where Indira's tree is? So it was so lovely, especially in the early years.
So sometimes you go there and there'd
be some of your fans sitting there or having a little meditation or taking a photo. Yeah, it's quite lovely. I mean, it doesn't have to be that tree. You can find joy in any tree. I love hearing stories about how everyone has their special tree that they grew up with or have down the road
or have in their garden.
Yeah.
Beautiful beings.
Yeah, they are. They are. And they communicate underground by their roots.
And nature teaches a lot about being human, about aging, about coming into who. Who we really are. Yeah, yeah.
And that cycle of life and the letting go. I remember someone. I remember I read a book about death which talked about the tree and the leaf dropping, getting orange, going brown, and then fluttering softly to the ground. And I think it was a kid's book on death, and it was really quite a powerful image. So. Yeah, you said you've got grandkids, so you're loving Obviously being a part of their life. Yeah, they're great fun and your mum is in Adelaide and so. But you, I mean, you're quite a young granny, really.
I was, I was 42 when I became a granny.
Super young. Fabulous. So cool. So lucky. Lucky for them, I think, to have that kind of younger energy around too.
Yeah, no, it was good, good fun.
Yeah. So how do you think about the years ahead then and what your priorities are in this phase and stage of your life? Does it. Is it just keep embracing the play, the creativity?
Definitely. And also, you know, there are a lot of things that, especially when we do the hours of meeting, media work. I've really worked nights for my whole media career and you don't really think about that, but as you get to this age, you realize, oh, that meant you missed out on all those birthdays, all those barbecues, all those festivals, anniversaries. And you always think you'll catch up with a lot of those celebrations, but, you know, you never actually do. And so I've been very conscious now of what I do and how I spend my time is really structured around not missing those, those sorts of events. So a Sunday lunch together is really special because we haven't really had many of them over the years. So. Yeah, here's to lots of Sunday lunches. Love a Sunday lunch. You know, beer and a barbecue or going along to one of the children's recitals that we can actually get to their school event in the evening. So you, you have missed a lot out. So we're very lucky that we're, we have time now to do a lot of those things to be present in a. That you thought was being present. You know, you sent a text message, you made a quick phone call, but it's not really the same of being in the same flow and the same 24 hour cycle as the rest of the members of your family. So as much of that is just so fun. Like Abby and I are going to do a painting afternoon. We're just doing oil painting and then we're making pizzas. You know, just real, real quality time that I would have loved to have done in the years preceding. But, you know, it's hard to squeeze that into a radio shift.
Yeah. So making up for kind of the things that you. When the focus is not so much on the hardcore career, making time for those.
Yeah, I just don't think it's impossible to mix that in with that structure. When I look back now on the way most journalism and media work is structured, there's no reason why you can't have an afternoon off to paint and make pizza. Why not? Why does it have to be the way it is?
It's not just journalism. It's so much work. We all just get so bound up in our jobs, and they become a big part of our identity and who we are. And I think we need to. I think the next generation, actually, they're already started. They're like, you get paid, you do your hours.
Yeah.
And that's what you do.
Yep.
Yeah. They're drawing some boundaries that we. It's good because.
Because we were sold this whole, you know, lie about productivity. You know, you work more, you get more money. Everything was gonna get better. And we're now living through an era where we've seen that. That is the. The damage.
Yeah.
You know, that over, you know, consumerism and capital and gone crazy and overstress. Exactly.
Yeah.
No. All hail. And people go, oh, those young workers, they're just good on them.
Yeah, me too.
Me too. Good old.
Yeah. They're brighter than us.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, it's such an exciting time of your life. And I think it's really good to talk about it. Cause we often talk on this show about the hardships of middle age and middle stage. And I love that you're keeping that sense of play. You're really happy in yourself. You're happy in your body.
Yeah.
You're thriving like your tree.
And like a tree, there's always challenges every day. It's not as if, you know, everything's rosy and perfect all the time. But I think if you're.
Drop some branches occasionally.
Exactly. And, you know, someone's gonna, you know, wee against you. A dog comes along, it's not always gonna be good.
You're gonna get pissed on.
Yeah.
You're gonna get pissed on from a great height. But it's that. It's that gratitude. It's the grace, it's the joy, it's the laughter, you know, just. And that real appreciation of what living is and what being alive actually feels like. And if you really go into your body and you allow all your senses to be stimul, Feel the taste, the textures, it's really. It's an exciting thing to be human. But in these spaces that we inhabit, we shut everything down. We minimize it, don't we? So that we can't smell, we can't feel the sunlight, we can't feel the breeze.
Because our brain, our frontal brain is flooded with stress and cortisol. It doesn't allow that yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you feel a sense of responsibility to truly live in the senses, in the moment, with that clarity for those friends of yours who have died?
Yeah.
And for your sister and for those who are no longer with us?
Definitely. It's a gift. Absolute gift.
Yeah, yeah. You live for them as well as yourself.
Yeah.
Because they can't. Yeah. It makes you feel more alive, I think when you lose someone, doesn't it? In a way it does. Mm. Good luck on that stage. No, I shouldn't say good luck. You say break a leg.
Yes.
Or chukas. Let's do the proper acting thing.
It's so exciting. It's so exciting.
So exciting. You're gonna mess out. Stay in character for the whole time.
I really don't know because my natural. My natural bent is to play and like to do something to upset whatever's happening, so. And I know Susie's like that, so I think we're gonna have a lot of fun.
Oh, my God, you're gonna have so much fun.
So depending on what night you come, it's all. I think it's gonna be qu Every night. Yeah.
It's fabulous. Good on you.
Good on you.
Thank you. Go for it.
Thank you, Sarah.
Yeah. Thanks, Indira.
Thank you. It's been great.
Do send this episode to someone you think who needs to get back to their creativity, to their joy, to trying new things and having a sense of play. I think India is a modern day philosopher. For all of us in the sandwich, send us any topics you would like us to cover, please to our email because we love to hear from you and you can always give us some ideas for different episodes and we really take them very seriously. You can also contact us on social media and please know this, you are doing a great job. You're not doing it alone. You have got them and we have got you. Today's episode was supported by Australian Unity Home Health and Care, Proactive local care that helps your parents stay independent and living well at home. Visit AustralianUnity.com Au Club Sandwich.
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